Comments on: The construction analogy — estimation http://blog.gdinwiddie.com/2006/12/27/the-construction-analogy-estimation/ Effective software development Mon, 13 Oct 2008 08:45:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.6 by: George Dinwiddie’s blog » The Limits of Energy http://blog.gdinwiddie.com/2006/12/27/the-construction-analogy-estimation/#comment-16644 Sat, 17 Nov 2007 12:53:45 +0000 http://blog.gdinwiddie.com/2006/12/27/the-construction-analogy-estimation/#comment-16644 [...] For one thing, the house construction mentioned so long ago has finally started moving forward after a long struggle procuring the necessary permits. (That’s an external dependency that was estimated extremely optimistically!) For another, I’ve been traveling almost non-stop helping an out-of-town client with an Agile transition. This is made even more interesting by the fact that the team is distributed, and composed of people from two formerly separate companies. Tucked in among these was the AYE Conference—extraordinarily valuable, but also completely consuming while I’m there. I learn so much and meet so many interesting people that I never want to miss a minute of the action. [...] […] For one thing, the house construction mentioned so long ago has finally started moving forward after a long struggle procuring the necessary permits. (That’s an external dependency that was estimated extremely optimistically!) For another, I’ve been traveling almost non-stop helping an out-of-town client with an Agile transition. This is made even more interesting by the fact that the team is distributed, and composed of people from two formerly separate companies. Tucked in among these was the AYE Conference—extraordinarily valuable, but also completely consuming while I’m there. I learn so much and meet so many interesting people that I never want to miss a minute of the action. […]

]]> by: Matisse Enzer http://blog.gdinwiddie.com/2006/12/27/the-construction-analogy-estimation/#comment-9 Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:24:04 +0000 http://blog.gdinwiddie.com/2006/12/27/the-construction-analogy-estimation/#comment-9 Sounds like you are taking a reasonable approach. I guess because I think of myself as a Builder I want to remind you that the discussions you want to have are consulting services yo want to get from the builders and you'll probably get better results if you let them know that you value their time and expertise - that doesn't necessarily mean paying for the discussions, although it might. I'm guessing that you have a list of these 'stories' and their alternates that you want to discuss, and I bet that helps - the builders can take the lists home and think about them if they are not comfortable talking it through in person - they may feel put on the spot. Most clients of builders (who do not have an architect) do not have their desires organized in a way a builder can easily respond to, so I think you are ahead of the game. Remember - Software is not a Building, but the *process* of making software *is* like the *process* of making a Building, so you know a lot already. Sounds like you are taking a reasonable approach. I guess because I think of myself as a Builder I want to remind you that the discussions you want to have are consulting services yo want to get from the builders and you’ll probably get better results if you let them know that you value their time and expertise - that doesn’t necessarily mean paying for the discussions, although it might.

I’m guessing that you have a list of these ’stories’ and their alternates that you want to discuss, and I bet that helps - the builders can take the lists home and think about them if they are not comfortable talking it through in person - they may feel put on the spot.

Most clients of builders (who do not have an architect) do not have their desires organized in a way a builder can easily respond to, so I think you are ahead of the game.

Remember - Software is not a Building, but the *process* of making software *is* like the *process* of making a Building, so you know a lot already.

]]> by: gdinwiddie http://blog.gdinwiddie.com/2006/12/27/the-construction-analogy-estimation/#comment-8 Mon, 08 Jan 2007 02:28:21 +0000 http://blog.gdinwiddie.com/2006/12/27/the-construction-analogy-estimation/#comment-8 Thanks, Matisse. I doubt we'll be able to stay within our budget (which we've already increased based on estimates), but we can't afford to go TOO much over. We're talking to past clients they've provided as references. Mainly we're looking for a builder who will work expeditiously, and not let the project lag when new opportunites arise. We're also looking for honesty and openness, not someone who'll low-ball the estimate and make it up in change orders. And, what we really want is one who can discuss the costs of features, and the relative costs of doing things two different ways. We want a cathedral ceiling in the living-dining room. What's the cost for doing a stick-built (where the ceiling slope will match the roof slope) versus using scissors trusses (where they won't)? Aesthetically we'd prefer the traditional, but not if the cost seems exhorbitant. It's like the XP planning game, but the builders aren't very familiar with that. I'm sure the process will give me plenty of raw material for blogging. Thanks, Matisse.

I doubt we’ll be able to stay within our budget (which we’ve already increased based on estimates), but we can’t afford to go TOO much over.

We’re talking to past clients they’ve provided as references. Mainly we’re looking for a builder who will work expeditiously, and not let the project lag when new opportunites arise. We’re also looking for honesty and openness, not someone who’ll low-ball the estimate and make it up in change orders.

And, what we really want is one who can discuss the costs of features, and the relative costs of doing things two different ways. We want a cathedral ceiling in the living-dining room. What’s the cost for doing a stick-built (where the ceiling slope will match the roof slope) versus using scissors trusses (where they won’t)? Aesthetically we’d prefer the traditional, but not if the cost seems exhorbitant. It’s like the XP planning game, but the builders aren’t very familiar with that.

I’m sure the process will give me plenty of raw material for blogging.

]]> by: Matisse Enzer http://blog.gdinwiddie.com/2006/12/27/the-construction-analogy-estimation/#comment-7 Mon, 08 Jan 2007 02:25:07 +0000 http://blog.gdinwiddie.com/2006/12/27/the-construction-analogy-estimation/#comment-7 Oh yeah - I forgot one of the best techniques, when you can use it: Come up with a budget first, and then design to meet that budget. Oh yeah - I forgot one of the best techniques, when you can use it: Come up with a budget first, and then design to meet that budget.

]]> by: Matisse Enzer http://blog.gdinwiddie.com/2006/12/27/the-construction-analogy-estimation/#comment-6 Mon, 08 Jan 2007 02:07:44 +0000 http://blog.gdinwiddie.com/2006/12/27/the-construction-analogy-estimation/#comment-6 For the 12 years or so I've been designing and building software and managing other people doing those thing too. Once upon a time I was a General Contractor (California License 575363, now expired ;-) and I think you are both right :-) and in 1987 I worked with Chris Alexander, a designer/builder whose name is probably familiar to many software designer/builders. You *can* get an upfront estimate from a good, honest design/build firm, if you are successful in convincing the contractor that you really do think of it only as an estimate. Perhaps one of the best ways to do this is to examine several of the houses they have built and ask the price. Divide the price by the square footage and make notes about exceptional items (solar electric? swimming pool? difficult building site? etc.) This should get you a rough cost per square foot. Then the real difficultly is reminding yourself that it really is only an estimate, because you will of course, want to stick to that price ;-) Also, some suggestions: - Examine the builders' process - visit a job in progress. Talk to two prior clients. - Try spending a couple hundred bucks and see what working with them is like. $200 and 3 hours should tell you a lot. - Find out what homeowners' insurance in your area estimates for rebuilding costs. - Take deep breaths. I think if people knew what a construction project entailed maybe half of them would not do it. Do it as a couple - your relationship is more important than the color of the roof. - See this as a chance to carry out everything you know about project management - it's your project, your money. Good luck! For the 12 years or so I’ve been designing and building software and managing other people doing those thing too. Once upon a time I was a General Contractor (California License 575363, now expired ;-) and I think you are both right :-) and in 1987 I worked with Chris Alexander, a designer/builder whose name is probably familiar to many software designer/builders.

You *can* get an upfront estimate from a good, honest design/build firm, if you are successful in convincing the contractor that you really do think of it only as an estimate. Perhaps one of the best ways to do this is to examine several of the houses they have built and ask the price. Divide the price by the square footage and make notes about exceptional items (solar electric? swimming pool? difficult building site? etc.) This should get you a rough cost per square foot. Then the real difficultly is reminding yourself that it really is only an estimate, because you will of course, want to stick to that price ;-)

Also, some suggestions:
- Examine the builders’ process - visit a job in progress. Talk to two prior clients.
- Try spending a couple hundred bucks and see what working with them is like. $200 and 3 hours should tell you a lot.
- Find out what homeowners’ insurance in your area estimates for rebuilding costs.
- Take deep breaths. I think if people knew what a construction project entailed maybe half of them would not do it. Do it as a couple - your relationship is more important than the color of the roof.
- See this as a chance to carry out everything you know about project management - it’s your project, your money.

Good luck!

]]>